Jack Smith, the former justice department special counsel who led the aborted federal prosecution of Donald Trump, told a congressional committee that he never spoke to Joe Biden about his cases, according to the transcript of a deposition released on Wednesday.
In his behind-closed-doors testimony to the House judiciary committee earlier this month, Smith defended the charges he brought against Trump for allegedly possessing classified documents and attempting to overturn the 2020 election, while warning of the consequences of allowing election meddling to go unpunished.
“Theoretically, what happens if there is election interference and the people who are responsible for that are not held accountable?” Democratic congresswoman Pramila Jayapal asked.
“It becomes the new norm, and that becomes how we … conduct elections,” Smith replied, according to the transcript.
“And so the toll on our democracy, if you had to describe that, what would that be?” the congresswoman asked.
“Catastrophic,” Smith said.
Trump and his Republican allies have alleged that the former special counsel was a key figure in a justice department that Biden had “weaponized” against his predecessor. The Republican-controlled House judiciary committee earlier this year heard testimony from one of Smith’s top deputies, and months later subpoenaed the former special counsel for private testimony. Smith had offered to voluntarily testify in public, as special counsels typically do.
In questioning from Democratic congressman Dan Goldman, Smith said he operated without interference from Merrick Garland, the attorney general who appointed him, or any other top justice department officials.
“Did President Biden ever give you any instructions about what you should or should not do related to these investigations?” Goldman asked.
“No,” Smith replied, later specifying he had not spoken to Biden about his cases in any way.
Smith was appointed in November 2022, and quickly brought the two federal cases against Trump, who also faced state-level charges of election interference in Georgia, and falsifying business records in New York.
While he would later be convicted of 34 felonies in the Manhattan case, neither of Trump’s federal indictments went to trial before he returned to office following the 2024 election, after which Smith, in line with justice department policy, dropped the charges.
The election-interference case was slowed by pretrial motions, including a supreme court ruling that gave presidents immunity for official acts and forced Smith to make changes to his case. The classified-documents case was hampered by rulings from Florida judge Aileen Cannon, who at one point dismissed Smith’s indictment.
Smith authored a report into his prosecutions, and the portion covering the election interference case was released prior to Biden leaving office. However, Cannon has barred the chapter discussing the classified-documents charges from being made public, though Democrats on the judiciary committee have asked her to reverse her decision.
At the outset of the hearing, an attorney for Smith, Peter Koski, told the committee the former special counsel had received an email from the justice department advising him to avoid talking about his evidence in the case because of Cannon’s ruling.
“This restriction significantly limits Mr Smith’s ability to discuss the classified-documents case. Nevertheless, Mr Smith is committed to doing his best to answering questions consistent with the department’s guidance,” Koski said.
In his more-than-eight-hour of testimony, Smith insisted he had no political motivations in indicting Trump, and said he believed “we had proof beyond a reasonable doubt in both cases” that he brought.
“If asked whether to prosecute a former president based on the same facts today, I would do so regardless of whether that president was a Republican or a Democrat,” he said in his opening statement. Smith later told an unnamed committee staffer he would have indicted Biden or Barack Obama over similar evidence.
Republicans have been in uproar after it emerged that federal investigators obtained data related to the phone usage of several members of Congress, which was used as part of Smith’s prosecutions. Smith hit back in his testimony, saying: “Recent narratives about my team’s work are false and misleading” and the “records were lawfully subpoenaed and were relevant to complete a comprehensive investigation”.
The only data collected, Smith said, was incoming and outgoing phone numbers and the calls’ durations, not their contents themselves. The data helped show that Trump continued to press his allies to stop Biden from formally becoming president, even as his followers were attacking the US Capitol on January 6, he added.
“President Trump and his associates tried to call members of Congress in furtherance of their criminal scheme, urging them to further delay certification of the 2020 election. I did not choose those members, President Trump did,” Smith said.
Trump has repeatedly railed against Smith, and in his testimony the former special counsel acknowledged the risk that the president could come after him.
“I have no doubt that the president wants to seek retribution against me,” Smith said.
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